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Tonight is when we find out if Measure 30 passes. I'm crossing my fingers that it doesn't.

I've been reading the little news stories on katu.com and the like, and reading the quotes by people who are voting yes makes me sad. These people are putting their faith into an organization which has made no promises as to how all this money is going to be spent. We've done it before - we've given more and more money to the government, who says "but our ________ neeeeed it!" and then when they get the money they put it towards things like light-rail stop decorating.

I guess all I'm saying is: if you don't know or don't care about how a measure is going to turn out, don't just vote a certain way because the radio commercials are appealing to your emotions. Read about the measure. Read both sides, even. Find out exactly what's going on, and THEN vote.

Comments

( 9 comments — Leave a comment )
rini
Feb. 3rd, 2004 02:52 pm (UTC)
You're supposed to vote on the MEASURE. Not on whether or not you agree with the goverment- that's an entirely different ballot measure, more commonly known as "elections" :-)
monospace
Feb. 3rd, 2004 03:09 pm (UTC)
Re:
Whenever I vote, I vote for the big picture.
rivulet
Feb. 3rd, 2004 03:09 pm (UTC)
We get to vote on this for a reason, though. Just because we voted the wrong people in (or at least the people who don't mind the way the spending is at the moment) doesn't mean we have to keep feeding them money whenever they ask for it.
rini
Feb. 3rd, 2004 03:17 pm (UTC)
Re:
You're targeting the wrong people though- the people making the decisions about how to spend the money are not going to be affected by this measure so if it doesn't pass it's not much skin off their noses. What do you think will be accomplished when/if Measure 30 fails?

As a state employee I resent the assumption is that everyone's over-spending. It's just not true- there's a great deal of responsible, careful budgeting that goes on here (& only about 3% of the budget here comes from the state because they keep cutting the funds- part of why it is 66 degrees & freezing in my building) and in other state organizations.
rivulet
Feb. 3rd, 2004 03:30 pm (UTC)
Re:
The people making the decisions about how to spend the money aren't going to have the extra money to spend, so that'll definitely affect them. It won't come out of their pay or anything like that, no, and I know that. And I also know that not everybody who works for the state is as well off as people like Kulongoski. But that doesn't mean that we can't change the way we're spending. Between 1998 and 2003, our general fund budget increased 151%. Doesn't that sound like irresponsible spending? How come I don't get a 30% cost of living raise every year?

If I worked for the state in a 66-degree building, I'd still be excited about voting no on this measure, because it's going to send a message that we need to reexamine the way the big guys are spending. You're feeling the cuts just as much as school kids and seniors are. But how much of your hard-earned paycheck do you want to give to the government, while still wearing a jacket and mittens to work every day, before you're fed up?
rini
Feb. 3rd, 2004 03:41 pm (UTC)
Re:
hah. I still disagree with you entirely. I mean, yes, obviously everyone needs to be careful with their spending. But not giving the state the money to spend does not mean that they will react the way you hope- they don't get off on spending money- they're trying to cover the needs of the citizens of Oregon and a large number of those citizens are unemployed, starving & without health care.
So, they won't have the money to spend, great. What happens then? No one gets paid? The government shuts down? More hospitals close, more social workers get laid off, more roads don't get maintained, you don't get your tax return until December? Do you really think they can stop buying so many pens or something and things will be better?

I'd give the government half my paycheck if it provided for my needs sufficiently- if I knew that my healthcare would be provided, my parents &/or children would receive any care they needed and all services would run smoothly & efficiently. Right now though, I'd settle for giving them an extra $100 or so a year if it means that a few homeless kids get to stay warm or keep taking their medication for a year.
rivulet
Feb. 3rd, 2004 03:53 pm (UTC)
Re:
I don't think the government is sadistically chortling as they burn money to make a nice fire in the fireplace. But I'm not sure how you can look at the budget (or even if you're looking at it when you say what you're saying) and think that it's OK.

What happens if we don't give them more money? Well, if they're stubborn (which they probably will be at first) they're going to say "well, we told you we'd cut this and that and the other thing! Our hands are tied! It was YOU that decided these things weren't worth it!" Which will piss off the right amount of people, I think, to make something happen. I don't think it'll happen in a day, or a week, and that sucks. But I would much rather go to the doctor to mend my broken leg instead of putting a band-aid over the piece of bone that's sticking out of my skin and just replacing it every couple of minutes when it bleeds through.

You may not believe me, but I'm not thinking about how giving a couple more dollars away is going to affect my lifestyle. I AM thinking about the schools. I AM thinking about health care. I want to have healthy happy children from the moment they're concieved. My parents are getting older and they deserve good health care. But I want something tangible to pay for, not empty promises. I want a system that's going to work, not a borrow-and-spend policy that barely fixes things in the short run, let alone the long haul.

incognita
Feb. 4th, 2004 07:52 am (UTC)
Re:
This thread was a very interesting read. I commend you both on your abilities to disagree on an issue without belittling the other person's point of view. :)
rivulet
Feb. 4th, 2004 08:11 am (UTC)
Re:
I think it's awesome that we're still on for Saturday even though we have such differing opinions on anything political that even talking about it frustrates us a bit. :D I love being able to debate things with people that I like.
( 9 comments — Leave a comment )